New Life LIVE: July 31, 2026

Announcer: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Welcome to New Life LIVE. I've got a ringing in my ear. Oh, I know what it is. It's all the phone calls that are coming in. That is awesome. Hi, I'm Brian Perez. I'm here with Dr. Jim Burns. He's a parenting expert and the founder of Homeword. Dr. Jill Hubbard is here too. She's a clinical psychologist. Guys, great to be on with you again today. Dr. Jill, what's on your mind to start us off?
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Hi everyone. Good to be with you again. I've been thinking about some things prior to knowing that I was going to be on with you, Jim, so I might need a little bit of your help. I wanted to talk about what I call parental PTSD. This is about parents, and first of all, we're not dismissing what children go through or a child's perspective. I'm also not talking about parents like in my book, *Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers*, where those parents probably should not have been parents. I'm talking about decent parents that have reactions to the traumas, the life experiences, and the incidents that their kids go through. At times, you can have a kind of a parental freakout where it feels like your nervous system just gets hijacked. You go into that catastrophizing—Jim, in your book, *When Your Adult Child Strays*, you have some good input—but you can go into that awfulizing, over-generalizing, overthinking, and rumination that just takes you offline. There are so many things that can cause that. I think of physical illnesses. I remember when my son was 16, he went through a major surgery. It was a top-five pain surgery. I had to be in the hospital with him for a week. We came home with narcotics in his bag. I had him in bed with me for a month, propped up. It was a long ordeal. It was like having a 16-year-old that then suddenly became an 8-year-old. That feeling of his vulnerability at times would come back to me. I think of the parents with the kids in Ladera Ranch and the cancers that are coming up, or a kid with mental illness. When you don't feel like your kid is fully launched and they are struggling, or they go through friend rejections or radical ideology. There are some extreme situations, like mothers of killers. How would you like that? As they get older, there is the possibility of marrying someone who isolates them, or estrangements. All these things do a number on parents. You raise your kids, you want an ongoing relationship with them, and then there are these things. When you get caught in your own parental PTSD freakout, it hijacks your nervous system and it actually impedes your relationship with your kid. Some of the things that we all as parents have fears about, like wanting my kid to be a Christian or wanting them to lean into the Lord, I think we have to ask ourselves a few things. First of all, when have you had these similar feelings in life prior to having kids? A lot of times, what happens with our kids at different ages and into adulthood stirs up our own unresolved grief and issues from the past. It's really important to look at that and to look at those feelings of powerlessness, feeling out of control, and not being able to control the outcome. If you're wanting things from your kids, you have to also ask yourself if you're doing that too. You want them to lean into the Lord? Are you leaning into the Lord? You need to practice what you preach and gather people around you that can support you, that you can talk out your fears with, so that you don't put them onto your kids.
Brian Perez: Good stuff. To begin today's episode of New Life LIVE, we'll go to the phones when we return. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Before we go on, I've got to remind you guys that today is the last day to get the early bird pricing on the Hope Together Conference. Here at New Life LIVE, we often remind you that staying equipped and encouraged is essential when you're caring for others. One opportunity this fall is the Hope Together Conference in the Dallas area. It's three days of biblically-based training and practical tools for counselors, coaches, pastors, and lay leaders. You can learn more about the conference at hopetogether.com. As a New Life listener, you have a special discount available when you register. That code is NLM20. You'll save 20% on general conference registration. Early bird pricing ends today, so don't wait. hopetogether.com and the code again is NLM20. To the phones now, here is Cindy in Orlando, Florida, listening on SiriusXM channel 131. Welcome, Cindy. Thanks for calling in today.
Cindy: Thank you so much. My question is kind of in-depth. I have been in a relationship for five and a half years. I sold my home back in 2024 because me and my fiancé were going to build our own home. So as the home was being built, I temporarily moved into his home. Our home got destroyed with Hurricane Milton. The house got destroyed. I was putting the money up front to build the new home, and he was going to come on the back end when he sold his home. Well, that all fell into the drain. We kind of stopped looking at new homes because we started fighting a lot. I feel like it was just enhanced. He was just nitpicking about everything. I kept praying for signs and things would settle down. Now we're talking about getting another house. So I found a beautiful home and I told him I really like this house. He went to look at it with his father and my mother. He was on board, so I put the money down on this house to start building this new home. Of course, I'm putting the money down again on this home. The good thing is that with this builder, I'm not going to risk anything; I can get the money back. The thing is, my question is, he was always telling me we were going to get married. I always said, "Well, are we going to do a prenup?" because my father has a business that we're going to be inheriting, so it's in a trust. So I said, "I would like to do a prenup." But he was against a prenup when we first met. He was like, "No, I'm against that." So I said, "Okay, so then I just agreed we're not going to do a prenup." Now he is telling me that he's not going to buy a home with me unless he's married and we're going to do a prenup. I said, "That's perfectly fine, but we are going to get married or I'm not going to move forward with purchasing this home with you, and I can just you just need to get off of it and I'll do it on my own." So I'm at a crossroads. I gave money three weeks ago to this builder. He's telling me now that he talked to his parents and his mother is saying, "Oh, no, do the prenup, but really why do you have to get married in your 50s?" I'm thinking to myself that was the whole reason why I sold my house was to start a life with you. So I'm so upset because here I am. I gave up my home and I feel like he's just playing me for a fool again. I don't know what to do. I mean, I can get my money back, but I just don't know if I should just get the home on my own and just move on with it because I do love him, but I just don't know why there's always this issue with us or issue with him because he's like, "Oh, I don't know if I want to marry." I'm like, "Well, you should know by now after five and a half years being with me."
Dr. Jim Burns: I think it's the perfect illustration, Cindy, of making sure you get good counsel on this. Because, and again, the counsel sometimes can come from family, but a lot of times what you want is someone who is a marriage and relationship counselor. The reason is that a lot of times women look at living together differently than men do, frankly. You want to make sure that you use the word "getting played." I hope that's not the case, but you've been in a relationship for long enough that you should, as a couple, know if you're going to get married or not. It's interesting because today, back in the 1970s, way back then, 75% of people said they would not live with someone before instead of marriage, and today 75% say that they would. So the world has changed that way. I don't think God's word has changed, but I think the world has changed. Sometimes that's when couples come to this crisis that you're coming to because of the living together aspect. He's just comfortable how it is, and you want something more. If that's your heart's desire, then I would get the counseling to see if maybe this is something that moves forward. It's going to be painful one way or the other. It's going to be painful if you leave, and it's going to be painful if you stay if it's not the way you hope it is. I'm not saying there's not pain in every relationship. I've been married 50 years and there's pain in it and beauty. But the point I'm saying is I would make sure that you get the right counsel. 31% of marriages that get good premarital counseling and education do better in their marriage if they get that premarital counseling. That's unbelievable. That's amazing. Make sure that you get the right counseling on this because you want some people speaking into your life who know the story because to me, you just gave me about three yellow flags. You didn't give a red flag, but you gave me three yellow flags. With yellow flags, that means we've got to work these things through.
Cindy: Well, there are some red flags I've ignored because he cannot really communicate with me. When I start talking to him about adult issues and reality, he starts raising his voice and he has a tantrum. I'm like, "Okay, well, this is not normal with a grown 53-year-old man." Because I have a 30-year-old son who's married and does not act like that with his wife. I just don't understand and I don't know if there's a personality issue or maybe he's just manipulating me. I don't want to say that about him, but I just don't know anymore. You should know after five and a half years being an adult man what you want. We're living like roommates right now because I have completely shut down and I've been just hurt. I feel like I'm just at a crossroads and I don't know what to do. I don't want to make a financial mess.
Brian Perez: Right, and you are at a crossroads and you already put some money in. It sounds like that's not the worst thing because you can get it back. But you are at a crossroads. When we're at a crossroads, that's when it motivates us to go seek the help that we probably needed three years ago. But you've got some flags happening. I wouldn't make too many decisions without getting the kind of wisdom and counsel from someone in your area. Luckily, where you live, there's great counselors in that area and great wisdom. How's the relationship spiritually?
Cindy: So he was raised—I guess both are Christians. He went to a strict Christian school and everything. But I just think to myself sometimes, with his background of being religious, behind closed doors you would never believe that he was a religious person because it's almost like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I just don't even know. I just don't know.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Cindy, it sounds like there is a lot of uncertainty. It is hurtful. I hear you in a lot of ways over-functioning in this relationship. All of the good ideas and plans you guys have had, it feels like some of the plans have taken on almost a life of their own and have become a greater priority than getting your relationship right. You selling your home and moving in with him, it makes sense financially, but I think emotionally and relationally, it doesn't 100% make sense. Because of men and women being wired differently, if you have a reluctant man, well, like Jim was saying, the living together just makes him comfortable. So why should he have to move to the next level? I'm also hearing that his mom is in his ear a lot. Not a bad thing; it's okay for a mom to be close to a son. But is he more aligned with her than with you? At 53, go ahead.
Cindy: They have an estranged relationship. They're not really—he's very close to his father. So it was a shock to me that the past 48 hours he did reach out to his mother when she refused to come to our wedding two years ago, which we don't even know why she refused to come to the wedding. She also wasn't really the best of mothers to him. He's very close with his father. So I don't know why he reached out to his mother.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay, and that's okay. I just didn't know what that was about. So are you married?
Cindy: No, I'm not married. We were supposed to get married and it just keeps getting pushed aside.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Got you. Okay. So I think anything that has to do with a house and moving forward that way really needs to be put on hold until you figure out, are we in this? Sometimes you need to step back. I would even suggest you stop living together. It's not maybe the most practical, and so that's why people—go ahead.
Cindy: I just have my stuff. I have my house in storage. I have two storage units right now. I'm just tired. I want to put my house back together. I want to get my life back together. So either I'm going to get the home on my own and that's where I'm at right now. Because I can't go into an apartment; I have too much stuff and I'm not going to part with my stuff. I'm 52 years old; I want to be settled.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay, but do you understand that that's the priority? And so this relationship is a vehicle to get you what you want, but the relationship isn't cooperating. So you're frustrated. So if you want this house with or without him, go get the house. Don't include him. And then say, "You know, when we figure out our relationship, then we can talk about joining forces with the house."
Cindy: I might do that for myself, right? Because this living situation is not good for me right now.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: No, it's not good for you. And he's not sure, and you've invested five and a half, six years. I think it's okay to say, "I need to move forward because like what you just said to me, this isn't good for me." I understand you're not sure, so you take the time to do what you need to do. In the meantime, I'm going to move forward for myself and give you the space to decide what you would like.
Dr. Jim Burns: That was good insight. And again, I wouldn't—play the movie forward. It's not working. So you've got to play this movie forward and you go on and on like this, it's still not going to work. I would at least make sure that you get some good healthy counseling. Then also I would suggest strongly that if you guys did say separate for a bit, which is not a bad idea on this, then you come back saying, "I'm willing to not move back together, but I'm willing to get some counseling together." Now you're working on that much more. You're making decisions about a house. Houses can come and go, and it's a bummer that your storage unit is—two storage units are full, but you don't want to make a decision on a relationship based on putting your home back together.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: You're conflating the two issues, I think. You're getting them mixed up as if one is dependent on the other, and it's not. So we need to separate out those issues. I agree, get in some counseling so you have someone to walk through this with you because you have a lot of self-doubts and fears. And because it's also sad, like he may not come with you and that would be really sad. But the way he would come with you right now doesn't sound good. Doesn't sound healthy, Cindy.
Cindy: He's too wishy-washy.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: He is. And he's kind of riding on your coattails and non-committal. I think he needs to see that okay, you are going to move forward regardless and that then he has to decide on his own. So he's got to step up and be a man or stay an ambivalent boy.
Brian Perez: Cindy, thanks for calling in today. Stay on hold. We want to send you a couple of tip sheets that we have available, and anybody watching or listening, we can send these to you as well: "10 Tips for Healthy Grieving" and "12 Steps to Recovery from Grief," because you are grieving right now. The marriage that you thought you guys were going to have, you were going to have this beautiful home together and everything else, and it's just not working out the way you thought it would. This guy that you've been with for six years, what is going on here? We're not saying it's the end, but man, this is just a very sad situation. Everybody watching and listening, if you could please pray for Cindy and that she'll perhaps have the courage to move out, get out on her own there. We thank you for calling us today here at New Life LIVE. We'll be back with more of your calls in just a moment. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. If you or someone you know is struggling, call Covenant Hills at 1-800-NO-ABUSE. That's 1-800-662-2873. They've also got a website that I'll tell you about in just a moment. But Covenant Hills, they've been around for over 30 years. They've helped men and women find lasting freedom from addiction through Christ-centered, clinically excellent care. With gender-specific programs, they offer residential treatment, day treatment, and ongoing support that heals the whole person: body, mind, and spirit. Again, call 1-800-NO-ABUSE or visit the Covenant Hills website, covhills.com. C-O-V-H-I-L-L-S dot com.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: And fun fact, some of the starters of that program used to work for New Life 20 years ago or more. Actually, probably longer.
Brian Perez: Very good. To the phones, Tina, Louisville, Kentucky, listens to the New Life LIVE podcast. Thanks for calling in today.
Tina: Hi there. Thank you so much for taking my call. I want to say thank you guys for being on the air. I'm a long-time listener, long-time supporter. I wish I could do more because you all are so helpful. My question is, I have been married for 43 years, and it's been hard. I'm just learning about attachment styles, and my husband's an avoider. Not sure what I am yet. But two years ago, right before our anniversary, he told us there was nothing to celebrate and that he didn't love me anymore, and that he didn't want a divorce. He said that we'd been living like brother and sister for so long, and I didn't think it was even that. I mean, we just kept busy and basically lived in the same house. But to hear those words that he didn't love me, I guess I felt it but I wouldn't believe it until then. So the past two years have been devastating. He came to a crisis point. He got into counseling. He's working on himself. I've been in counseling for a year with a counselor that I was in, actually, that New Life recommended several years ago. But my question is, I just, after 43 years and working so hard and trying so hard and being basically neglected emotionally and haven't had relationship in over 30 years, is there any hope? I'm afraid to hope. I feel stuck. I just feel stuck and what is there to hope for, you know? And now that he wants to work on it, I'm like, I don't know.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: I wonder, Tina, what part of you, without knowing, was okay with the complacency? When you said you didn't—go ahead.
Tina: That's a great question. I used to really fight and I would even try to start an argument just to get communication out of him. And at some point, I think I just thought, well, avoiding, which I never did, is easier. It's just easier.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: It's kind of like the person who wants the least feels like they win because if you want more, you're not going to get it. They're satisfied with much less. And so yeah, but I think with an avoider, and he sounds like an extreme avoider, what often happens is they hit the limits of their capacity for intimacy. So it's easy to say "I don't love you," but it's really "I don't know how to love you," or being close feels uncomfortable, so it's easier just to shut down and to kind of reduce their life. And also often avoiders have a strong fear of their own feelings, of being exposed, of humiliation, and seem to be able to tolerate a lot less. And so that's why they avoid because they can't even tolerate entertaining some of the feelings or the ideas. And too, that it for men, I think, makes them feel incompetent in the emotional arena. I think the fact that, well, okay, he's older now, so he's naturally, as hormone levels change and shift, he's maybe having a little more emotion. But the fact that he's in therapy, Tina, is hopeful. That's hopeful. That okay, kind of picture your relationship—yes, you've been busy, you've both been busy, and so it was easier for both of you to allow that to happen. So it was kind of dormant. But you were both still living your lives. Well, now it's time to kind of wake up a bit. And I get why that would be scary for you. Why am I going to even trust this guy who has been so neglectful? But I think it's realizing that there's a growth spurt in him that never was before, that was dormant. So this is a new aspect of him, and that is where there is hope.
Dr. Jim Burns: I like the word "dormant," and I think we have to make sure that you have a chance if he's getting counseling to reinvent the relationship, to reboot the relationship. But both of you have got to be there. When you're saying neglected for 30 years, 43 years of marriage, but 30 years of neglected relationship, that's tough. Miracles happen every day. So if you want this, you lean into it and you'd almost have to get re-married, you know what I mean? In terms of just saying we're going to do it this way now. If he's willing to do that, it might change. There's hope. You guys should come out to Intimacy and Marriage. I'll tell you about it when we come back. Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. "99 for the 1" is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/9941. Join the mission: rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.
Brian Perez: So, Tina and anyone else watching and listening, right before the break I was talking about the Intimacy and Marriage Intensive. The next one is happening the weekend of September 25th in Dallas, Texas. Not too far from you there in Louisville, Kentucky. You can get all the details about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Jill, I think you had something else.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Yeah, well, and I think that would be great for them. Really, it's a good launch. I just, Tina, want to caution you. First of all, it would be totally understandable for you to have a lot of resentment. And suddenly your husband's waking up and wants to try, and it's like, what about the last 30 years where you've been suffering, you've had to carry the load, you've been neglected? So your resentment is legitimate. It is real. But if you stay in your resentment, I don't think you'll get what you want. So you have a right to that resentment, and at some point it would be good if he could hear how it felt to you, but I don't think he's there yet. And so you have a choice to make here.
Dr. Jim Burns: I always say before freedom comes pain. If you want some freedom in this marriage, then you'll have to work through the pain. The pain means you're getting your counseling, he's getting his counseling, eventually you're going to have to come together and say, "What does it look like now?" And like I was talking about in terms of reinventing, almost have a renewal of your vows to each other. It works sometimes. I know of a couple similar to yours and at—I'll be honest with you—I really wondered if it was going to work. We had dinner with them last night. They're holding hands. They had some other issues in terms of even some infidelity things. They are new people and they have a new marriage because they both were willing to humble themselves and then work at a new relationship. So it's possible.
Brian Perez: Love that. All right, before we go to our next call, let me remind you that everything we do is because of the financial support that you provide for New Life Ministries. Thank you for whatever you can do, whether it's a one-time gift, a large gift, small gift, they all are great. If you can become a "99 for the 1" partner, that would be awesome. It's our monthly support team that just on a monthly basis, they commit to whatever dollar amount you feel led. We're not going to tell you, "Give at least this much" or whatever. I might say, "We're looking for 99 people to give $99.41," but that's just me speaking. Whatever the Lord puts on your heart, we would love if you would come alongside us and partner. You can get more details at newlife.com. You can text NLM to 28950 or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Here's Ellen in Denver, Colorado, listens to us on newlife.com. Welcome, Ellen, to New Life LIVE.
Ellen: Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. I have called a couple of times and I'm dropping off somebody right now, so if you could give me like 30 seconds I appreciate it.
Brian Perez: Yeah, that's fine. It allows me to do a real quick commercial here that there is so much going on here at New Life Ministries and that's why we'd love for you to sign up for the New Life Ministries newsletter. You can go to our website, newlife.com, sign up for the monthly newsletter. It lets you know what's going on in the future. We've got webinars coming up, we've got intensives, we've got—tomorrow is the "Rescue" online event for women. All the details about that are at newlife.com. Is that about 30 seconds? I think so. Hopefully she's dropped her off and back.
Ellen: That was perfect. Thank you so much. We aim to please. Well, it was my child, so I certainly did want to talk about this. I really resonate with the previous caller because I have a similar situation. I've been married for 20 years. 18 months ago—well, and there's three complications. Number one, we've been raising three special needs children for 17 out of those 20 years. And so now they're getting grown, but they're not getting gone. But 18 months ago my husband started saying things like, "I haven't been in love with you for 10 years." Mind blown. And you've been here for those 10 years? But then he wants to leave. He's not a Christian; I am. I'm dedicated to my children and I have been given my whole life to taking care of three special needs kids, so I don't have like an income or anything like that. I just told him, "No we're not. No we're not. No we're not," you know. But even on Mother's Day, instead of saying "Happy Mother's Day," he says, "We're getting a divorce." I have been devastated from one thing to the other. He said that his job had nothing to do with the family, as if the family was something disgusting. He made it clear that he still wants to do everything he can for the kids, he just doesn't want me. So he made it really personal. On top of that, last thing I'm going to say, there hasn't been any intimacy for 15—no, 16 years, because it was before the last kid was even born. And so I am devastated, but I don't want a divorce. I want to keep my family together. I don't want to retraumatize these kids anymore than they are. I am wondering if there's anything biblically speaking that would support the fact that I am not wanting a divorce and he just feels like I'm forcing him to stay. I said, "Well you promised God, even though he's not a Christian, he recognizes you didn't just promise me, you promised God you were going to be the husband." And so so far, things are just really rocky. We've been displaced from our home for a whole different set of situations. But my question to you is, can you comfort me or counsel me on am I wrong to just keep holding on to him?
Dr. Jim Burns: Can I ask you a question, Ellen? 16 years of no intimacy. Do you mean 16 years of no physical intimacy?
Ellen: Physical, sexual, anything. No touch at all. No touch at all. Actually there is one bright spot. About two weeks ago he did something horrendous and when he couldn't apologize, I started doing this, "Give me your hand," and I would pray. "60 seconds of your time and give me your hand," and he's not praying. He told me point blank he's not praying, he's listening. Hallelujah, he's listening; he's going to hear some words.
Dr. Jim Burns: Is there any chance he's having an affair?
Ellen: I don't know; it's a possibility because he's distanced himself. Ever since that 18 months ago, he would do things like not come home except for three hours a day, every day. Even he'd say he's going to work, but he doesn't even work on the weekend. "What do you mean you're going to work?" And so it's a horrible, painful, neglectful situation to live in, but I'd rather that than to retraumatize these kids anymore than they are.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Ellen, besides not coming home, which that's a big red flag, any other changes that you've noticed?
Ellen: Oh yeah. He bought me a car, cash down, but then the other car that has both of our names on just started disappearing. He was giving the car away and I asked him, "Well where is the car?" It says, "Oh well, one of my co-workers needed to go pick up somebody." Okay, that would be fine for the first day, but six weeks goes by, six months goes by, and this car is just gone.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. Has he changed the way he dresses?
Ellen: Yes, and he changed his way he looks. He's lost a lot of weight, he's started working out, he's shaving when he never would care about his appearance. Very upsetting, frustrating things. The problem is I know him well enough that the no-sex thing is not just me. That I mean, when I met him he was 35 and had never had a relationship. I don't think he has somebody else. I think he's more like what one of my friends said: "Are you sure he's not a eunuch?" And I'm like, "No he's not." But that was 20 years ago and now we see 20 years of it. Well maybe change your mind.
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well Ellen, some of the things you're mentioning, just so you know, would be red flags about an affair. I know that's not what you want to hear, but sometimes somebody meets someone and then it kind of awakens something in them. So you see these behaviors and changes, like caring about his physical appearance is a huge red flag. And that's when he's saying that he hasn't loved you, which a lot of times people base that on a feeling. Remember infatuation is like a drug. It's like cocaine. So of course compared to day-in and day-out living it feels so different, and that's usually what they're basing that statement on. "This feels different, this feels like love." No, this is like hormones surging, and so he's dismissing what you guys have had. So I know that doesn't answer your question 100% here.
Brian Perez: Well we've got to go to break. When we return, maybe we'll continue our conversation and take some more phone calls here on New Life LIVE. Thanks for watching and listening today. We'll be right back. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.
Brian Perez: All right, Brian here with Dr. Jill Hubbard and Dr. Jim Burns. Dr. Jim, any scriptures that come to mind for our caller there, Ellen?
Dr. Jim Burns: That's actually your question, and sometimes we look for scriptures that are point blank on this. I don't think there is. I mean, there are scriptures that say we have grounds for divorce if there's adultery, and I'm worried about you and your husband because I just sense you've made so many of these changes lately; I just wonder what he's up to. And that's something you want to look at. But as far as—yeah, there's scriptures that where we persevere, we fight for our relationships on and on, but I don't think there's a specific scripture that says we must hold on. And again, I'm not a Bible scholar, but I mean I went to seminary and whatnot, so I mean I have—and I believe in the Bible. But I don't really think there's something specific to your question. And again, maybe some of our listeners would disagree with me on that. But at the same time, I do think it's time for you to go make sure you're getting the help you need. Is he in counseling?
Ellen: No he's not in counseling.
Dr. Jim Burns: Well again, that's where there might be a good confrontation here where you're talking with him with somebody else and simply—I'm going back to the you've got to clear the deck on this to make sure that he's not in some kind of another relationship because that doesn't—when you're in an adulterous relationship, it doesn't work to build on your relationship. I understand all the reasons and all the investment you've had with this man and your special needs children. I mean, you are amazing. However, he's looking for a way out and you're looking for a way in and somehow that's going to have to—you're going to have to still spend a little bit more time figuring out what do we have? What is left of this relationship, especially because of the things you were saying about so many years of neglect?
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Ellen, I think it makes sense to fight for your marriage and that for yourself as a Christian you do everything you can, knowing that you can't hold him there. You can't make him stay. In California, one person can get a divorce without the other person's consent. So there is that. I love the fact that you're grabbing his hands and praying with him. I think it would be okay to say, "I suspect you're having an affair," and so that that is out in the open, so he's compromised the wedding vows. And you were talking about the scriptures; yes, it talks about abandonment by an unbelieving spouse and adultery are two reasons why people do get divorced, but doesn't mean you have to. I would also recommend Proverbs 4, 5, and 7 because it talks about the immoral woman and what happens in life when you go down the steps of the house of an immoral woman. And so in an odd sort of way, when your husband is straying, that can be a comfort: that God's word warns against that. That might be good for him to read. Proverbs are good teaching, and I have seen that happen to people: the long-term effects of what those proverbs say. So you're in a really tough spot. You have a hard life with these three children and I'm so sorry you're in this position and that instead of your husband wanting to work on the marriage he's found a drug outside of the marriage. Everybody watching and listening can pray for Ellen and her three kids, and that her husband will just turn his life around and repent from what it is that he might be doing. And even if he's not having an affair, just that he'll turn around and be the husband and father that he's supposed to be. Well right, we pray for the miracle; we prepare for the worst.
Brian Perez: Let's talk to Kimberly in Spokane, Washington, who listens to us on SiriusXM channel 131. Hello, Kimberly.
Kimberly: Good afternoon, good afternoon, and thank you so much for taking my call. I have a question regarding work. My job, I was laid off on Friday unexpectedly. I had been with the company for almost four years. My question for you is: when should I expect or should I expect a phone call from my immediate boss, who is also a Christian? He's not the one that laid me off, by the way. Just saying, "How are you doing? I know this has got to be a difficult time for you. I'm sorry this happened." It wasn't a job performance thing; it was a financial thing with the company. To make matters even a little more complicated, I was the one who basically got him this job with this company that he's with. He elevated to superior over me, which is fine because I did not want the position because I was getting close to looking at retirement. And so I'm just wondering, what's a good time frame to expect or if I should even expect a phone call from him? You're just talking about him calling you as a friend, not as your boss, but just calling as a friend. You were friends before he even got the job.
Dr. Jim Burns: Well, here's my thought on it, because it becomes awkward for everybody. And would it be reasonable? Sure, it'd be great if he would call. Now again, his superior may say "don't call" just because of the weirdness of the law and all that. You just don't know. I don't think it would be inappropriate for you to check in and just go, "Hey, I'd love to unpack this if it's possible with you and have that conversation." You take the lead if he's not going to do it.
Kimberly: I actually did. When I got released last Friday, I gave him a call and he was very uncomfortable talking to me. He says, "I this really makes me sick to my stomach and I'm just really sorry about all of it." And he says, "I'll give you a call and we don't have to talk about work." But he never followed up.
Dr. Jim Burns: I mean, he gave you a little bit of a sign that he's feeling awkward in this whole thing. Time sometimes does heal that, especially because you have a relationship from the past. It may—but you may have to—I know we're going to talk sometime. I really would like to get your insight on it, is there a time in the next month that we could have that call? Again, you may get this and you may not. This is human nature. I mean some people are good at having those kind of conversations; nobody likes those kind of conversations. He's in an awkward place. But if you force the issue, if you need to, not force it...
Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, and you might say, "I don't want to put you in an awkward position, but are you able to debrief with me as a friend?"
Brian Perez: That's good advice. Kimberly, sorry that we couldn't spend more time with you; we've run out of time on today's episode of New Life LIVE. Have a great weekend everyone. We'll see you at church on Sunday and talk to you again on Monday here on New Life LIVE. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.
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