New Life LIVE: July 30, 2026

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Hello and welcome to New Life Live! I'm Brian Perez, here with Dr. Alice Benton. She's a clinical psychologist and an author. And Mark Cameron's here too. He's an author for sure. He's a licensed marriage and family therapist. He also leads How We Love, and both of them are here to give you some great advice today. Thanks so much for watching and listening. Mark, what's on your mind to start us off?
Mark Cameron: Today, I'm going to help listeners learn how to stop feeling frustrated. When you get upset, is your default response to tell the other person that you're feeling frustrated? In one of my couples therapy sessions last week, the husband shared with his wife that he's confused about what she needs from him when she's upset. She looked a little incredulous because to her it was obvious. Yet, as we explored deeper and looked at a few different situations of her being frustrated at him, we actually found out she wanted different things each time. One time she wanted space, another time she wanted him to take the lead, and yet another time she wanted him to come after her and initiate a conversation asking why she was upset. Can you see his confusion? In therapy, the word frustrated along with its cousins annoyed, irritated, and agitated are actually feeling words I encourage people to exclude from their emotional dictionary. Why? Because they're all descriptions of anger. Anger is a secondary emotion, meaning it's covering a vulnerable feeling that we're actually experiencing. All negative emotions have an emotional need in that moment that needs to be met. If we feel anxious, we need reassurance. If we feel rejected, we need acceptance. If we feel unheard, we need to be heard. Expressing those emotions actually tells a different story than simply saying, "I'm frustrated." Because when someone is angry or frustrated, what do they need in that moment? Well, they need to calm down. But how do we know how to help them calm down if we don't know what's going on underneath? Anger is also a separating emotion, meaning that when someone's angry, we tend to move away from them rather than toward them. Think about this: if your spouse says, "I'm frustrated with you," what are you likely to do? Most people lean away and they become defensive because it sounds like an attack's about to come their way, and it's hard to get your needs met if others are moving away from you. But what if they said, "I'm feeling hurt because I don't feel important to you," or, "I'm scared that we're growing apart," or, "I'm disappointed because I was really hoping that we'd spend some time together"? Suddenly, you have something you can respond to with empathy instead of defensiveness. One of the reasons many of us default to these words like frustrated is because we grew up without learning the language of emotions. We likely grew up with a parent who showed their frustration, or no one was available or slowed down long enough to help us understand what was really happening inside. Instead of learning what the feeling was or the true emotion, we just learned to express the pressure that we were feeling. Secure relationships aren't built on this vague emotional language. They're built when we can recognize what we're truly feeling and have the courage to express the need beneath that feeling. So the next time you're tempted to say, "I'm frustrated," pause for a moment and ask yourself, "What's the vulnerable emotion underneath?" and then ask, "What's that emotional need to resolve it?" Those two questions can completely change a conversation. Instead of inviting conflict, they can invite connection because for emotional connection to happen to us, others need to know what emotion we're wanting them to connect with. They can't respond to an emotion if we haven't identified it. When you can name your true emotion and request your true need, you give the people who love you the opportunity to understand you, to comfort you, and to move toward you.
Brian Perez: Research shows that having and developing emotional intelligence is one of the most important skills, and it leads to a better likelihood of success in almost all areas of life. So this is gold, this is a pearl of wisdom, and it is so worth pursuing what Mark has been talking about. Mark is also a thesaurus; he shows us other words to use besides "I'm angry" or "I'm frustrated." So, good stuff, Mark Cameron. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll go to the phones. Thanks so much for watching and listening today to New Life Live. Jan, you'll be up first when we come back from the break.
Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: One of the things you hear us say often here at New Life Live is that we never stop growing. That's why we're excited to partner with Hope for the Heart for the Hope Together conference this October. If you're a pastor, counselor, coach, small group leader, or simply someone who wants to better help hurting people, this conference is for you. Plus, if you are a viewer or listener of New Life Live, you'll receive 20% off registration using code NLM20. Early bird pricing ends tomorrow, July 31st, so now is a great time to register. Again, go to hopetogether.com and use the promo code NLM20. 1-800-229-3000 is our number, and let's go to Jan in Seattle, Washington, who also happens to be a 99 for the 1 partner. Hi there, Jan. Welcome to New Life Live. Thank you for partnering with us once a month with our endeavors. Thank you for supporting us financially, and how can we help you today?
Jan: Well, thanks for just being there, and I'm so glad. This is a perfect day to have all three of you on there. I am all of those things that you say: the perfectionist and the people pleaser. I'm the oldest in my generation and have the largest family. I don't know where to start. I'm in counseling and I just want to hear God. I want him to speak a little louder. I'm writing in the dust on the coffee table so I get my answers. I don't know exactly where to start. I don't know whether to start with a family member, meaning my sister. We grew up together. We’re both in our 80s and 90s, and the kids are in their 60s. I don't know where to start, but right now I'm thinking of her and I. We're both elderly. I don't think our families know how to necessarily deal with elder people. So maybe she and I should just concentrate on just being best sisters right now. My husband has already died. We were both divorced. She had four children and I had nine. Her husband is in the process of dying, and he keeps coming to my mind. I kind of want to say something to him, but I don't know what that would be. He's kind of gathered his family around him because he's not thinking he has much more time. My kids' dad died ten years ago. So there's just a lot of unresolved issues with my children and probably a lot with my sister. Any suggestions where I can jump in?
Mark Cameron: So Jan, you started off sharing with us that you are a perfectionist and a people pleaser and that you want to have this conversation with your brother-in-law. What stops you from having the conversation?
Jan: We haven't talked for over 20 years because they were divorced and he remarried. He seems to have had a pretty successful marriage. My husband divorced, and he was married to his second wife longer than he was married to me. We were the family with the nine kids and lived together for 24 years.
Mark Cameron: So what is it that you want to say to your brother-in-law? You said he's dying. What is it that you're wanting to say to him?
Jan: I just want to reminisce, I think.
Mark Cameron: And do you have that relationship? Have you maintained a relationship with him and his family?
Jan: No. Well, his family—the nieces and nephews are mine.
Mark Cameron: Oftentimes, I’m hearing you say that you're in your 80s and your sister is in her 80s and 90s. Usually, in that stage of life, that is what people want to do. People want to reflect upon their life. They want to reminisce. They want to talk about whether they felt fulfilled, what were things that maybe they didn't get to do. It sounds like you've got a deep need for that right now. You and your sister, I'm hearing. But I'm also hearing you say, too, that you want to be able to speak with your children about some things also. What is the barrier from having conversations with your kids and what is it that you want to say to them?
Jan: Well, that triggers always the tears. I just have always felt like I was a terrible mom, a punitive mom, one that was tough, had to be tough. I don't want to be that way anymore. I know I'm not. I haven't been for 20 years, but I reacted when it came to losing three daughters and three grandchildren—one granddaughter and two grandchildren. The last grandson was 20, and he was the last to die. His mother is my baby daughter, the ninth child. We're just really beginning to heal and get back together, and all of that is good. My son wrote a book about me and it included 12 or more chapters, one chapter on each of his siblings. So it's causing him and I to kind of start reconciling in a way by just talking—not talking about issues, just talking about life and family.
Mark Cameron: Well Jan, I love that you want to continue to grow. I love that you're just not saying, "Well, it's too late. That happened." I think going back to your kids—even though they're grown, they're not kids, they're adult sons and daughters here and they've got their own adult children too—going back to them and facilitating those conversations can really be healing for them. It can really help cement your legacy. So I encourage you to do that. I encourage you to go to each of them and say, "Hey, I want to talk with you. Help me understand how my parenting may have impacted you and what do you need from me for healing." Some of them may just need you to listen and acknowledge it. Others may need an apology, and some may need you just to give them affirmation and have you say that you love them and you cared about them. So I think it's great that you want to have these conversations and I encourage you to do them.
Jan: Thank you. I have your book in front of me and I'm going to start reading it, too. I would imagine it's going to help a lot. I was also wanting to know which next seminar to participate in, too, in light of what you've heard from me today.
Alice Benton: Jan, I appreciate your humility. You have remorse with tears. You were a punitive mom, and I'm going to just sit in that with you without whitewashing or trying to excuse it. It's so good to have godly sorrow as you look back and realize, "I was too reactive, I was too angry." I think, Jan, about how you were raising your nine children at some point without your husband there, and he was off married to another woman at some point. That must have been incredibly difficult to try to be a patient mom of nine kids. So I would bet you did your best with what you knew at the time, and yet with hindsight, you were too harsh. My hope, in addition to what Mark is saying, is that you might share that directly with your kids. "I realize now I was too punitive." You might even give them some of the examples: "I yelled too much," "Maybe I cursed at you," "Maybe I was physically aggressive with you when I was punishing you," any of the things that were true for you. Give your kids permission by making those confessions. Jan, when we're willing to confess some of the worst things about ourselves, usually our listeners want to respond with love and forgiveness. But if we whitewash and avoid and deny or point fingers—"Well, I only did that because you"—then that creates more tension and it tends to escalate arguments. So use your beautiful humility and your regret to bring healing to your children. With your brother-in-law, it's possible that if you offer to have a reminiscing, lighthearted conversation, he might take you up on it. But because there were 20 years of no communication, maybe you cut him off in a strong way. Maybe you were upset that he and your sister divorced. So you might have to address first, "I haven't talked to you in 20 years. Maybe you were hurt by that. I want to acknowledge that, and now I would like to have a conversation with you while there's still time left." You can try either route, but it sounds like for your growth, having more direct conversations with gentleness is probably where God is leading you.
Jan: I think so. Thank you. You guys are great. Thank you.
Alice Benton: I want you to know I'm in the same boat with you, and it is still a struggle. I just had to tell my daughter the other day, "I hurt you when I didn't come and look for you when I knew you were crying in your room. That hurt. Tell me about how it hurts you when I leave you alone for too long." Jan, I didn't want to confess that because I had good reason for why I left her alone and I didn't want to hear what I did wrong because that's very unpleasant. Entering into those conversations where we were at least partially wrong is very difficult to do, but I never regret it when I do it, Jan. I never regret it. Sometimes I have to role-play that with a therapist or someone who loves me beforehand because it's too hard for me on my own. I usually need to bookend those kinds of conversations with someone up here who loves me so I can say, "My daughter accused me of all these things. I think she was wrong, but I can still be a gentle listener to her." I need to offload the difficulty with somebody else too.
Brian Perez: Jan, we do have a webinar, "Doing Life with Your Adult Children," coming up in a few months. So stay on the line and we will get you a registration for that. Thank you so much for calling in today to New Life Live. Patty, we will talk to you after we go to Alan in Peoria, Illinois, who's watching us on NRB TV. Hello, Alan. Welcome to New Life Live.
Alan: Hello. I had a question about—a few months ago, I got an autistic diagnosis. I was pretty sure that I was after searching it for nine months, and I went to the clinic and got a real comprehensive test affirming that diagnosis. I'm just wondering, is the condition of autism responsible for various psychological problems?
Brian Perez: Why do you ask this question?
Alan: Simply because I've had a life history of psychological problems with Attention Deficit Disorder and anxiety. The clinic also diagnosed me with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and a phobia of being out in extremely wide-open spaces like beaches. I've done a lot of talk therapy for these conditions, anywhere from traditional psychoanalysis to rational emotive therapy, but I'm just wondering if I was fighting a losing battle by not realizing that autism was probably behind all that. I'm just caught whether my problems have been more in my environment, or more self-induced, or just more to that neurological condition.
Alice Benton: Alan, I hear the weight of "Whose fault is it? Is it my fault I'm like this?" I wonder if there is a sense of failure or shame behind that, or maybe other people have accused you or pointed fingers at you. So I want to understand your heart and will also answer your question because it's usually a combination of all these things that you're talking about: environment, family of origin, diagnosis. We'll help you more on the other side.
Brian Perez: Alan, don't hang up. We'll come back to you when we return from the break, and Patty, we're going to speak with you as well. Thank you all for watching and listening and supporting us here at New Life Live.
Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: Hey Alan, you still with us?
Alan: Yes, still with you.
Alice Benton: Alan, you've had a really tough life, haven't you, where people did not understand you and blamed you for a lot that wasn't fair?
Alan: Getting that diagnosis finally helped me realize why I've been just such a mystery to my growing up with my peers, my friends, my family, and probably most of all to myself, why I've just been so hard to understand. It's been a difficult life with that.
Alice Benton: And have you felt like it's your fault, the problems you deal with in your life are all your fault?
Alan: Certainly not all my fault. But I've been to different schools of thought, like traditional psychoanalysis that makes you think it's not your fault, makes you think you're just a victim. Then I went to a nouthetic counselor in the school of Jay Adams, who says there's no such thing as emotional difficulty, behavioral problems as a sinful lifestyle, and that did make me think I was accountable for it. In a way, it gave me hope because then I could do something about it, but then I felt like there was something lacking in that school of thought. Then I tried rational emotive therapy, then I tried orthomolecular therapy to straighten out your biochemistry. I've read all these different schools of thought, but then to find out I'm autistic, maybe that's the foundation of it all. It gives me some hope if that's probably the foundation.
Alice Benton: You are a very intellectual man. We can tell and I admire that greatly. It's one of the superpowers of autism: a focus and a drive and passion for certain topics and the willingness to put so much time and energy into learning. I'm biased because I'm so interested in the same things or similar things to you, but I think it's one of the best ways we can spend our time is trying to figure out "How do I tick? Why am I like this? And is there anything I can do to improve? What can I do about my weaknesses, and how can I discover and support my own strengths?" That's a great use of your time. I think you've had an isolating life, and it's very much so. You’re 79 and never been married, never had a family. You wish you could have had a family and a community.
Alan: Well, not really. I so much treasure my solitude that I don't really regret not having had a family. I had plenty of crushes on women, but I don't think I have the capacity for a lifelong commitment of love, so I think I'm probably better off single. I value friendship; I’m not saying I don't need friendship. I just don't think I need married life. I kind of have a knack for making friends with younger females, not romance, but certainly some deep friendships. So I'm not a complete loner. I kind of go from one extreme to the other. I could be such a loner, so isolated, but then when I do latch on to someone, boy do we ever interact. I just live in such extremes. I have 243 college hours. I authored a couple books, sang on Jimmy Kimmel Live. I've been so successful in my own way, but yet I've never made an eight-hour day career. I never really made a professional career. I just dabble here and there: writing for magazines, public speaking, stage acting, but never really made a professional career.
Mark Cameron: I'm glad you called in, Alan. It sounds like you've been misunderstood for your whole life and you've really tried to make sense of things. Unfortunately, in terms of understanding, you were born in the wrong generation because right now there's a lot more understanding to identify these behaviors. You're right, I think autism often contributes to anxiety and it can contribute to OCD because people who are on the autism spectrum often like things done in a certain way and they need it done in a certain way because it stresses them out. It helps create routine and what to expect. So I think you can still work on your anxiety. I don't think it's a hopeless battle for you, but I think with understanding of autism overall as probably the contributing factor, I think that can help you make sense of it.
Brian Perez: As much as he likes routine, though, he's done a lot of things that are not routine. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I've never sung on the Jimmy Kimmel show. Put in a good word for me so that I can go on as well. Patty, we'll talk to you when we come back on New Life Live.
Guest (Male): Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we can continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or newlife.com/99for1. Join the mission: rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: We've got another one of our Intimacy and Marriage intensives coming up. It is the weekend of September 25th in Dallas, Texas. There's still time for you to sign up, including to get our early bird discount. You can get more details about it at newlife.com. New Life is committed to strengthening and restoring marriages through this intensive. It's different from other help because of the deep work licensed therapists lead couples through in 12 sessions. Many have equated it to months of therapy. In fact, listen to what a pastor shared after attending: "This is an absolute must for every marriage, no matter what stage you are in. We all need to be emptied out, healed, and to draw closer in our marriage. New Life's Intimacy and Marriage workshop provides the tools, resources, and counseling needed to get more equipped. I highly recommend it." Thank you so much, Pastor. More details at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And when we say every marriage, we're not exaggerating. We've had couples come with their divorce paperwork and then decided through the healing process that they could repair the marriage. But we've also had couples come in who have a fabulous marriage and just wanted to invest more and have a weekend away while learning skills they perhaps had not learned or fine-tuning good skills they have. Let's go to Patty. She's in Chicago. She listens to us on the New Life app. First of all, Patty, thanks for downloading the app. And second of all, thanks for calling in today to New Life Live.
Patty: Hi. I so appreciate you taking my call. I have been involved in growth for my life for many years because of things that had happened to me. I have overcome many problems and also learned to know myself and continuing to learn to know myself. New Life has been a big part of that growth—groups—but God most of all. So today, my reason for calling is how do I get myself to not procrastinate in a certain area of my life that is very important and out of control? The problem is a bedroom and a clothes closet. This has been happening for years. I am not a lazy person and I am a very busy person doing many things in my life that are organized and I do not procrastinate in those areas. What can I do about this problem? This is just one of my problems, but this is one I'm focusing on today with you.
Mark Cameron: So it's a bedroom that you want to clean out that you keep putting off, is that right, Patty?
Patty: Yes, that and a closet. Correct.
Mark Cameron: And what stops you from doing that? Every time that you have an opportunity and you have time, what's the thought that stops you from doing it?
Patty: I think I feel overwhelmed that it's so much, and I don't really know how to—it's just overwhelmed.
Mark Cameron: You probably just don't know where to start. Patty, do you have ADHD by any chance?
Patty: No, I don't think so.
Mark Cameron: The reason why I ask that is people who have ADHD can have difficulty with motivation to start or finish tasks. They often report a common thing called the Wall of Overwhelm, meaning when a task feels so overwhelming, it's like a wall that can't be climbed, and so they struggle to get that particular task done, whereas there's other tasks that they enjoy doing and they can learn to hyper-focus on them and they can get them done. So that's why I wondered about that. Either way, we have two types of motivations: we have internal motivation and we have external motivation. When we don't have the internal motivation to do something, we need to leverage that with external motivation. That can be done in both positive and negative ways. We can give ourselves a reward for getting something done, or we can make it unpleasant for ourselves to say, "I'm not going to get to watch my favorite TV show until I get this room cleaned out." So you might want to think about those two ways to leverage it. But what I'm really hearing from you too is it's really not knowing where to start. Have you shared this with someone and seen if they could come in and give you some pointers about where would they start? Like what's the one thing they'd do first, what's the second thing they'd do second, and what's the third thing?
Patty: No. I had a close friend, an Alanon friend, and we tell each other everything. She came over and we cleaned off the dresser, the chest that has different things on it. She was adamant about doing that and she was helping me, and we did clean it off where it was nice. But since then, that's been a year and a half ago, it's got the clutter back on it.
Mark Cameron: So I would do this: I would have a friend come in, someone who you know is quite organized or good at tidying and cleaning things up, and just have them just kind of come in to consult for right now. Take a look at this room and then see if they'd be willing to help you write down a list and just number it. Like what's the first thing to tackle, what's the second thing, what's the third thing, and so on. And then they may even be willing to come in and help you do it. I think that once you get started and once you have a strategy and a plan, and momentum builds momentum, once you start to get things done, you might find that it becomes a little bit easier to do.
Patty: You know what I was just thinking? My grandson, my adult grandson, he did come in one time in the basement. I had all this Christmas stuff, and he came in and he helped me and I gave it to him—a lot of it. And I did, that helped me to organize downstairs in the basement. Okay, so yes, that sounds good. That sounds like a plan, knowing how I'm going to do this.
Alice Benton: That's good to identify previous success and repeat what worked for you the last time. You said you're in Alanon. Who is the substance abuser in your life?
Patty: It was an alcoholic husband; he's deceased now. I was sexually abused as a child and then I married an alcoholic. My life was—I didn't even know anything about myself. I had lost myself from the sexual abuse. There's been a lot of growth in my life in Alanon and New Life and all of these things. I was very controlled by him too, but I've come a long way. And I continue to work on it.
Alice Benton: You became very passionate about recovery and it's become a lifestyle for you, which is so admirable. I ask about the alcoholic in your life because anytime I've worked individually with a person who wants a similar version of help—"Help me get organized, why is this area of my life out of control?" especially for you when other areas are not out of control—I find that there's emotional meaning somewhere in the mess of the room. Whether it's maybe abuse took place in a room or a room like that, or maybe the room is filled with some things that are a reminder of the alcoholic or a reminder of being a widow and what that was like raising your children whenever he passed away or all the chaos he brought into your life through his alcoholism. There's usually emotional meaning, and it's hard to find it and you've got to dig for it. But it helps to find it because otherwise we can get into a place of self-condemnation. "Why am I leaving this such a mess? What's the matter with me that I can't figure this out?" especially when you are successful in other areas of your life, so there's this thorn in your side with this room. But if we can imagine there is some good reason why you're avoidant of this room, and your therapeutic work is just to find out what that reason is. Because if we can get into grace and acceptance and find out, "Oh, this is why I've been so avoidant because this reminds me of whatever the emotional injury is," that's when I've seen breakthrough of that emotional barrier and sometimes spiritual warfare can be lifted when we find out the underlying reason that room is so problematic for you. How do you react to that?
Patty: It could be. I don't know. But I did have that happen to me with the kitchen table because he used to argue a lot at the table and I hated my table. I was like, "Why do I hate my table?" So when I did get away from him, I got beautiful flowers, a beautiful tablecloth. Now I love my table! So I guess any area of your life you could have that in your life where you're still hindered in that. Objects and spaces too take on psychological meaning when things happened around them or with them. So I'm glad that you're open to it; it's worth exploring. Absolutely. Thank you so very much.
Brian Perez: All right, Patty. Thank you so much for calling us today here at New Life Live. I'm Brian Perez, here with Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron. We've got a few minutes left. Everything we do here is because of the Lord, of course, but also because of your financial support for our ministry. We've been doing this for close to 40 years now and we invite you to come along. Don't just be a viewer or a listener. It's like we're playing a game, a baseball game, and you can be in the stands watching, but we're inviting you to come down and pitch or run the bases or something. But you can do that when you join us as a 99 for the 1 partner. Those are the monthly supporters that like the one we had earlier today; we started our hour with Jan. She is a monthly supporter, a 99 for the 1 partner, and we so appreciate what she does and everyone as well. Or you can just give a one-time gift. Those are great as well. You can do either at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And one of the ways we say thank you to the 99 for the 1 partners is with a Zoom call. About once a quarter, we get together with you guys. The next one that's coming up is on the 11th of August, and Alice is going to be part of that one with Becky, aren't you?
Alice Benton: Yes. And whether you're a parent of a child you're concerned about or a grandparent worried about your children or your grandchildren, please join us. There's new research that has come out very recently about some of the damage that brains of children are sustaining because of excessive screen use. They're even seeing signs of Alzheimer's in children and adolescents. So there's urgent information we want to get to you and lots of great solutions at this webinar.
Brian Perez: Again, it's on August 11th at 7:00 p.m. Central Time. This is for our 99 for the 1 partners. You can sign up today to be a 99 for the 1 partner by going to newlife.com/99for1. Not too long ago, it was earlier this year, Mark Cameron here hosted a webinar called "Understanding Your Attachment Style." That's also the name of his book, which is available for purchase in the newlife.com store. Our webinars are set up—they're 90 minutes: 60 minutes of teaching and then 30 minutes of Q&A time. We try to get to as many questions as we can during that 30 minutes, but 30 minutes is not a long time. So we had some questions that we could not get to. Let's do at least one or two of them right now. Here's one that was sent in: "I'm in a relationship with an avoidant. The pulling away has become extreme over the last year. Now that we are apart, he returns with nostalgia but no change. I've been setting boundaries. Is this relationship hopeless? He refuses to seek counseling." Mark, what would you say?
Mark Cameron: Well, so that can be common in a relationship with an avoidant—that they can feel anxiety when others want to get too close to them and then they pull away, and then they can miss the relationship and want to come back. It can feel really confusing. Of course, you can't build intimacy with somebody who keeps pulling away from you. So eventually, I think you have to say to somebody, "I want to build intimacy with you, but you keep pulling away." In order to be able to do that, we need to be able to break down this barrier of why you're pulling away. We were talking earlier about the comfort circle. The comfort circle is the tool to be able to recondition and do some of this work together. The comfort circle is really being able to have a conversation for understanding. Lots of times people are trying to get the other person to understand them and they're not really willing to listen back. Well, the comfort circle splits the time in two and says there's two people who get to speak here. And if you can slow down long enough to really ask and dig deep to underneath what is the motivation for somebody to see why they're pulling away, they can get some clarity on that and you can get some clarity on that. Of course, in the end, you need to say to somebody, "If we want to be close in a relationship, we need to resolve this part. And if not, then I'm going to have to distance, I'm going to have to detach." Some of your work, if you're struggling with learning to detach from someone who keeps coming back but they're non-committal, that may be some growth work that you need to do for yourself.
Alice Benton: And it's so empowering to figure out your own growth work because that's where you have more control. We don't have control obviously of the other person. So if you don't know your own attachment style and what the goals are for your attachment style, that will give you direction for what you can do while this other person is still stirred up in their avoidance. I know that as an avoider myself, when I'm overwhelmed, I'm irritable and I get more critical. So it's hard for people to be around me when I'm reacting that way. And so even though you're in relationship with an avoidant, finding out what are some of your shortcomings that might be unappealing and might influence him choosing to pull away—it's not your fault that he reacts that way, but we influence each other. I can't control what other people do, but I can keep working on my anxiety, on my irritability, on my default tendencies I have. The more I become a securely attached person, the more attractive I am in relationship and the safer I am to be around. I'd have you ask this man, "Tell me what scares you about me and our relationship." And it may be a projection of something onto you that has more to do with his past. But avoiders are usually fueled by fear. If you're dating this person—and that's what it sounds like to me—then I want to warn you, you're probably going to get more of the same if you choose to marry him because our past behavior is what is the best predictor of future behavior, especially for someone who's not willing to get help. So I would be very cautious if you're dating him and he has no interest in getting help. You're going to get more of that in marriage; it'll just be harder. If you're married to him and this is happening, then it's so worth pursuing getting your own help, letting him know it's important to you and even perhaps making it an ultimatum. If we're to live under the same household, I need both of us to get help. I'm going to do my work and I want you to come. And then if he still won't, that's when we usually use scaffolding boundaries to try to influence him to change his mind.
Brian Perez: Now, you're not saying people shouldn't marry avoidants, are you?
Alice Benton: I am saying I would highly caution against marrying someone who says, "I'm fine how I am and I'm not getting help for it," because then you're just going to get more of this person's brokenness. Now, everybody entering a marriage is broken, but a person who knows they're broken and is willing and actively getting help, that's a much safer person to get married to. So people that are totally unwilling to look at their shortcomings and get help, I would be very hesitant to advise that person to get married.
Mark Cameron: All of the attachment styles have their own hangups. So if you marry one of these attachment styles and you yourself or they are not willing to grow, you're going to get more of the same. So expect to have those problems that those attachment styles have. People change; people become different when they get married. The natural state of a relationship is to drift apart. And so if you're not both intentionally working specific growth goals to grow together, expect that there will be disconnect in a relationship. But relationships take a lot of intention. Nobody accidentally falls into a good relationship. Of course, at the beginning of relationships, we're highly motivated and we are in the feeling of love and we want to meet the other person's needs. But that changes; it just shifts when we get married and real life sets in and different priorities happen and different things just happen in life. Having that intention to grow together is really key to have a successful relationship.
Brian Perez: All right, that's all the time we have. Great information that you guys gave there for the person who sent in their question at the "Understanding Your Attachment Style" webinar. Don't forget Mark's book is available for purchase in the newlife.com store. Thanks so much for watching and listening today to New Life Live. We're just a couple of days away, by the way, ladies. You can still sign up for the Rescue: Your First Step Toward Healing the four-hour virtual gathering that is happening online. It's this Saturday, August 1st, from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. Central Time. All the details at newlife.com. For Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron, I'm Brian Perez, and we'll talk to you tomorrow on New Life Live.
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