New Life LIVE: September 10, 2026

Brian Perez: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode. Hey, welcome to New Life LIVE. Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Brian Perez. I'm here with clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton and licensed marriage and family therapist Dr. Jackie Mack Harris. Ladies, it is so good to be here with you today. Jackie, what's on your mind to start us off?
Jackie Mack Harris: Well, with it being Suicide Awareness Day, I have been thinking about how important suicide conversations are and how difficult they are. Sometimes we notice that somebody is not themselves, maybe they're withdrawing or talking about being too much of a burden, saying people would be better off without them. Maybe they've started to seem hopeless or wanting to get rid of things, and we start to worry about their safety, but then we become afraid ourselves. In our fear, we don't ask the question. I've found amongst my friends and family and even clients that people are often surprised when I very directly say, "Are you thinking about ending your life? Are you thinking about suicide? Are you thinking about harming yourself? Are you thinking about harming someone else?" It's because we don't want to make people feel bad, and so out of our own fear, we don't do the very thing someone needs. I have heard people say, "I don't want to cause them to do that," or "I don't want to make them think," but asking someone directly about suicide doesn't put the idea in their head. It actually lets them know that you see them, you care about them, that they matter, and that you're willing to hear what they have to say. As Christians, sometimes I think we feel pressured to immediately give a scripture, or "I'll pray for you," or tell people God has a plan. Those things are true and they can be meaningful, but it's often not the right answer. Often, people just simply need you to be willing to stay. They need to know that they matter enough that even though they are in pain and their pain hurts you, you will sit with them, that they do matter. So, don't judge, don't minimize their pain, saying, "Oh, it's fine, we all go through things like that. Everybody has struggles. Oh, that happened a long time ago. You should be over that by now." Don't try to fix everything in the moment. Sometimes people just need to sit in what hurts, and that is okay. Help them connect to someone who can provide support, help them connect to New Life, help them connect to a counselor, help them find a life recovery group so they can be around other people who can help them see their own value. Suicide prevention doesn't always begin with having great words or the perfect words. Sometimes it's just noticing that someone is struggling and being willing to stay.
Alice Benton: I find that those who are suffering usually want to be asked and wish people would ask them. You don't have to be a therapist to ask. It's okay if you don't have all the answers because if your loved one says, "Yes, I want to hurt myself, I do want to die," then it can be as simple as calling us at New Life. It can be as simple as calling the Suicide Prevention Hotline 988. I've called 988 in order to get a sense of what happens when someone calls. I found the person who answered to be well-equipped, so kind, and very patient. They know what to do, we know what to do. All you have to do if your loved one says they want to hurt themselves is to reach out for help from professionals, and we'll walk you through what to do next. I think sharing that also with our kids. I had a conversation with someone whose child came home and said their friend told them they'd been wanting to hurt themselves, and the kid didn't know what to do. So, we were able to say, "Walk them to the nurse's office, walk them to the principal's office, walk them to an adult, and stay with them and have that conversation."
Brian Perez: It's a conversation my family also has from time to time, knowing that the increase in suicidal ideation is so strong today. So, our kids need to be equipped.
Alice Benton: They do. They're out in the world and people say mean things. So, we need to tell them that their life matters and that they can talk to us about anything.
Brian Perez: We'll be right back on New Life LIVE. Gigi, you'll be our first caller, so hang on. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Since we were just on the topic of suicide, I want to let you know about a couple of articles that we have available on our website, newlife.com. One of them is called "What to Do When Someone is Suicidal." It probably has the information that Jackie just gave, maybe some extra stuff as well, so check that out at newlife.com. We also have a tip sheet if you yourself have that suicidal thinking. It's called "Eight Steps to Breaking Free from Suicidal Thinking." We can send you that tip sheet when you call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or just order that tip sheet anyway, have it handy just in case something happens and you wind up having a conversation with someone. You can have that tip sheet handy. Again, that one's called "Eight Steps to Breaking Free from Suicidal Thinking." Call us to get it. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube, we'll put that information in the show notes there. Let's go to the phones now. Here is Gigi, who listens to us on newlife.com in Orlando, Florida. Hey there, Gigi, welcome to New Life LIVE.
Gigi: Thank you.
Brian Perez: How can we help you today?
Gigi: This topic is multifaceted, but it comes down to things like boundaries. I'm an aunt watching my sister deal with my nephew and the havoc that he's wreaking on my sister's marriage. It's just hard to watch. He's 21. We're a Christian family. He was brought up to know the Lord, and he's saying that he's an atheist and he's so bitter against all of us, his parents. He's using substances to drown his sorrows, and it could be worse. I don't want it to be worse, but he's had trouble controlling his emotions and anger and has put his hands on his mother more than once, but not recently. She still is in denial. She'll tell me one thing and then deny it the next because it's hard. She doesn't want the family to be prejudiced against him, but it's too late now. We don't feel safe, and it's just hard.
Jackie Mack Harris: Can I pause you for a minute? She doesn't want the family to be prejudiced against him, so she doesn't want the family to react negatively to his behavior and not want him around. Is that what you're saying?
Gigi: Yes, and he doesn't want to be around you guys either, right? He's decided he's an atheist. You say he put hands on his mother more than once. Were there any consequences for that?
Gigi: Yeah, I don't know the full story on it. I just know the times that she has called and it all—consequences, the police came, he had to be bailed out of jail, they hired an attorney. Let's see, what else? It could have been worse. It was him struggling against the police that actually got him, and the fact that she had called because she was scared, so she blames herself for that because he won't let that go. So, he's 21. This has happened over the course of a few years. He's just drowned his sorrow and blaming.
Brian Perez: And Gigi, he still lives with her, is that right?
Gigi: Yes.
Jackie Mack Harris: And you said her husband, is her husband his father?
Gigi: Oh, yes, yes. It's very difficult.
Jackie Mack Harris: Is he that way with his father as well?
Gigi: His father loves him, but he is not able to—he doesn't have his son's respect because of this or that, and he doesn't trust his dad, and I think both ways. I think my sister is the person that he has latched onto for life, torture or love, it doesn't matter, and then apologizes.
Brian Perez: Gigi, you're so right to be worried about her because she loves him, but she's also trying to protect him from the righteous consequences of his behavior, and it's just a setup for him to repeat it. Tell us, do you know if he experienced a major loss or trauma that might have led to him being so embittered?
Gigi: My sister would say that it is because they took him across country when he was in high school because of a job for his dad. While they were there and he was sad about and lonely, first time in high school, a young lady broke his heart and said many awful—low self-image issues. But he'll drag everything—it's amazing the memory we have when we are wanting to be bitter and resentful.
Brian Perez: And he blame-shifts a lot onto them.
Gigi: Blame-shift is a very—yes, I didn't know that phrase.
Brian Perez: And it's understandable that he's hurt by these things, but of course none of it justifies his substance use and his aggressive behavior towards his mom. She is not willing to allow the consequences for him, but she does want you to be a listening ear, which puts you in a tough position because you probably want to intervene and she won't allow you to. Is that right?
Gigi: Yes. Yes, it's amazing how quickly our brains go from one thing to another. I will be wanting to encourage her and then I have to stand up for logic. We pray together and then it's just so emotional all the time. I have other siblings and they don't want to hear it anymore, and it makes her feel so bad, and she can't help but want to call us bad names.
Brian Perez: Oh, she's calling you all bad names?
Gigi: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.
Brian Perez: So she's verbally abusive to you even though you're her listener.
Gigi: Yes, because we are not living up to her needs and expectations. That's just the—it's so sad.
Jackie Mack Harris: So the son might have got it honestly.
Gigi: Well, I know my whole sister. I know where she comes from.
Jackie Mack Harris: You know what you see when you're with her. I'm going to stop you there because we have a tendency to say we know, but oftentimes we are in relationship with people in our imaginations, not the reality of how they live their life every day because we're not there. So, we think we know, "My sister would do this or she would do that" or "My sister's this way or that way," but look at her life and the life circumstances that she's in. The sister you were about to describe that you know wouldn't be living in this life circumstance. So, she has a part of her that isn't the her you guys know. It is also maybe not the parent you've always seen, too. Dr. Alice was asking about any events that maybe had happened in his life. That move happened when he was in high school, he maybe felt like he had no say in it, they moved him, he lost friends, loneliness. She is his person. You've got your family, that's enough, that's all you need, right? Well, if she is his person, I wonder what things had been like before he turned 21. What was it like when he was five? What were the responses when he was seven? What were the responses when he was 12? What happened when he got an F? What happened when he lost the game?
Brian Perez: Because if she's willing to mistreat you all like that, it is so likely she responds to him in reactivity and anger, too.
Jackie Mack Harris: Yeah, they're back and forth in their reactivity, and then he's now a man and he's getting bigger. So, it starts to look different. The family doesn't enjoy being around him. Have you guys ever, when he was younger, did you guys enjoy being together as a family with your sister and her husband and your nephew?
Gigi: Well, my sister saved him. He was always bailed out. He had two older sisters, so he was always saying, "I'll have what she's having," and "Oh, she's going to help me with my homework." Things like that. It was very—so I know that he was given a lot of leniency because he was the baby. And he was the baby, the only boy. So, he definitely—if he just said, "Mama," enough, he was going to get his way or get a spanking.
Jackie Mack Harris: And would the spanking be from Mom?
Gigi: Oh, yeah.
Jackie Mack Harris: So, he had a situation that might have been a little bit disorganized. He couldn't tell if he's going to get the wrath of Mom or the coddling of Mom.
Gigi: That's the truth. That is true.
Jackie Mack Harris: What was childhood like for you and your sister?
Gigi: Well, I just wanted to touch on something else. My sister was a great mother. I know exactly what she was going through. I saw it up front. I knew where we came from.
Jackie Mack Harris: No judgment. We all do the best we can with what we have. But what did you guys come out of? What did you see? How were you parented?
Gigi: We had parents that were Christian, and we all could have been better, but I can tell you we had a sorrowful loss in 2007. My sister, well, she committed suicide. So, there's too much to even go into, but the point is she was an angel, loved Jesus, and she just had some mental illness that we just—well, we failed her in fellowship, too. I feel like we did, and my sister—excuse me—my sister does not want another angel. Do you know what I mean?
Alice Benton: Of course. So, she might overprotect her son because she doesn't want him to commit suicide. That completely makes sense. So, Gigi, I think there are two things that you have in your power to do because so much of this is outside of your ability to really control. You might consider a family intervention because your nephew is the obvious problem, but you're pointing out there is brokenness in the family, and there is in all of our families. A family interventionist, and we have a couple great people that we can recommend, would be able to help decipher who most needs the intervention. The nephew looks like the obvious one, but he may not be the only one. An intervention brings to bear truth about how the chaotic behavior is affecting the family, so that's the way your sister abuses you, but it's also the way the nephew abuses your sister, and it offers options for healing. But their response to that is out of your control, as you well know. And so if your sister continues to be abusive to you, you may have to start protecting yourself by limiting your exposure to her. She's getting all this free therapy from you, and—
Gigi: Oh, I wouldn't call it therapy.
Alice Benton: Well, you're her good listening ear. But because you're her main listener, I think she doesn't know she needs more help, or she's not willing or able to go get more professional help, and you need some of that responsibility taken off of your shoulders and transferred to a professional. And that might happen in a couple ways. I have the feeling your sister's not real willing to get help.
Gigi: Well, the good news on that end, all these years, months that I have been harping on needing somebody to talk to, you need somebody to tell you how to talk it over with somebody, she's got a therapist.
Alice Benton: Terrific. Terrific. So celebrating that is right to do, but you still can limit your exposure to her. So that may be, "I've got five minutes to listen to you. If you get mean, if you get loud, I will hang up," and/or, "I'm not willing to hear about this anymore. Please take this to your therapist."
Jackie Mack Harris: Gigi, you said "Oh, wow" twice. What's come up for you? Are you surprised?
Gigi: Oh, that just breaks my heart.
Jackie Mack Harris: You want to find a way to fix it without her having to suffer the consequences, in the same way she wants to find a way to fix it for her son without him having to face the consequences. She's not going to grow without the consequence. If you continue to subject yourself to her behavior, you are doing exactly what she is doing with her son. How does that land, Gigi?
Gigi: She's been there for all of us every time we needed her.
Jackie Mack Harris: Would she tell you wonderful things about her son? It's the same cycle.
Alice Benton: And Gigi, oddly enough, removing yourself to some distance, it loves her better than just being her listener because it will force more discomfort, which makes it more likely that she'll receive the help truly that she's getting from her therapist.
Brian Perez: Gigi, thanks for calling us today here on New Life LIVE. We know we offered you a lot of suggestions. Go back and listen to the archives so that you can find out more. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life LIVE. We are back on New Life LIVE. Brian Perez here along with Doctors Jackie Mack Harris and Alice Benton, and look who's joining us. It's New Life president Becky Brown. Hey, Becky.
Becky Brown: It's me. Hello. Surprise. My heart is hurting for Gigi and her family. So many times we hear the efforts that people are putting into trying to fix the problem. I'm so grateful that we are here for her to reach out and talk to both you, Jackie, and Alice with that compassionate care and insightful truth that you gave her and you gave her next steps. The only way we can do that is because people are generous and support New Life. They've been either part of our 99 for the One monthly donation or they give big gifts because out of the abundance that God has given them, they want to give back to make sure that the hope of a new life is there. That's why we are here. I was thinking about Every Man's Battle and we hear so many testimonies, and one in particular, Nick, felt dead inside. Pornography, lust, and affairs gave him temporary relief, but the emptiness always returned. While he tried different programs, he was stuck and began to lose hope, and his wife gave him an ultimatum. Of course, we hear that a lot here. She said, "You need to go to Every Man's Battle." He was hesitant, but he went, and he discovered what was fueling the addiction. He had a safe, shame-free zone and godly counselors who have been this journey. They know what it's like to be stuck and to find that freedom in Christ. New Life has had the privilege to walk alongside so many people for close to 40 years. We couldn't do it unless God was moving in the hearts of you, our donors and our listeners, to be part of what God is doing through New Life. And so I just wanted to come on today and encourage you. If you have not supported us yet, today's the day. Brian, how can they give?
Brian Perez: There are several ways, Becky. They can go online to newlife.com. They can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. They can text NLM, as in New Life Ministries, to 28950. Yeah, if you want to make a big gift today, we are not going to say no. We'll take it because we appreciate so much what you do, what the Lord lays on your heart to give towards New Life so that we can continue what we're doing. Sometimes it's people like our last caller, Becky, where they're calling on behalf of someone else and because they see the turmoil and everything that their family is going through or a friend or a neighbor, and they call because they're like, "You know what? I trust you guys. You guys can help give me some tips to help my friend, give me a tip sheet that I can give my friend because there's so much going on."
Becky Brown: And there's not too many places—I can't even think of one—where somebody on a live program would pick up a phone call, we don't know what you're going to ask, we don't know what the situation is, and we are ready. We're ready to give you the next step because we know that God is working through the ministry and through our incredible co-hosts that we have. We've been doing this a long time. We've been helping so many people and you're probably one of them, listener. You've been impacted. And so today's the day and thanks for let me jump on. Let's go back to the calls.
Brian Perez: Anytime, Becky. Anytime you can just jump on in. It's so good to hear from Becky when she tells us these stories of listeners that she's heard firsthand of how New Life Ministries has helped. I remember recently, Alice, you were talking about how you didn't even know New Life was around and then you found New Life and boom.
Alice Benton: That's right. Even though I grew up in the faith, I went to college for psychology, but I really hadn't found a resource that combined those two things together. And that's what New Life does very uniquely. It shows us how the two go hand-in-hand and are both necessary for our healing.
Jackie Mack Harris: I love it. I love that New Life exists because I came up in church where psychology was bad. And so church would tell you not to see a therapist, all you need is the Bible and your pastor. If your pastor doesn't say it, then you shouldn't hear it. And so it was a joy for me to find New Life and to find these professionals who have this wisdom who are god-led and come prayed up and ready to see what the Holy Spirit will use them to do. And so I think I've gotten over the years I've been able to have conversations with and meet so many people who love New Life, who call in and who listen regularly. I just think it's a gift to our community and we just really appreciate that people continue to give so that we can continue to serve.
Alice Benton: And it's not just about listening and receiving the wisdom, but it's about putting it into practice, especially with the New Life family that believes in these principles together, knows they're broken, and wants to heal and is actively taking those steps. Because wisdom alone, information alone, is not enough. It needs to be practiced with other people. That's that iron that sharpens iron, and I've never found better iron than at New Life.
Brian Perez: Yeah, those formative years for me, too, were also no psychology, just whatever your pastor says, that's all you need, and psychology, it's just man's wisdom instead of God's wisdom. Well, here at New Life, we combine these things and we so put God's word first in front of everything that we do because that's what it's all about. We're not here to just tell you what we think, but we search the scriptures and we give you godly advice and we want to keep doing it. So, if you can help us today, go to newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text NLM to 28950. Thank you for your generosity. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE (1-800-639-5433) or newlife.com/9941. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life LIVE. We do so much here at New Life Ministries. Becky Brown was just with us and explained so much of what we do and how your financial support enables that, and we are so appreciative. It's easy to forget everything we do at New Life because there's so much going on. But if you go to our website, newlife.com, you can sign up for our e-newsletter and you'll get notified every time something new is going on. We are also on social media, we're on YouTube. In fact, if you're watching us on YouTube right now, make sure you like today's video and also subscribe if you haven't yet. Another thing that we do offer is called "Restore: Healing After Betrayal." This is for women sadly for whom betrayal is part of their story. It happened whether recently, whether a long time ago, could have been a husband, could have been a family member years ago who sexually betrayed them. We hear these stories all the time. Jackie and Alice, why do you think women hold back and maybe they don't want to attend something like Restore, even though they hear testimonies, even though they hear the description of it and they say, "You know what, I really need to go to this, but I better not."
Jackie Mack Harris: I believe from what I've been told the woman doesn't want to go into betrayal care because it feels like a second betrayal. Like, "I didn't do anything, why do I have to go?" Almost as though it's a punishment for them to now have to go into treatment. "Why should I have to go? He did the thing," versus seeing it as care, as recovery, as support, as people coming around you and helping shoulder some of this burden. I also think women haven't—they have no way of knowing what they'll receive. Many women by the time they find Restore, they have been blamed, they've been said, "Well, what weren't you doing?" or "What did you do?" They have been told it's their job to fix it. "Well, if you just did this more, then he wouldn't do that." There are very invalidating ways in which people approach trying to help someone who has been through infidelity. I think that those things then make it hard for them to get the help that they need. But they get to Restore and they learn something. They learn that they're not alone. They learn where their responsibility lies and where it isn't their responsibility. They learn about boundaries and how to set them and just get to be part of a healing group.
Alice Benton: Tragically, church leaders have told women, "You must not have made yourself sexually available enough, and that's the problem and that's the solution." I have heard that way too many times. And so when a woman has been betrayed and then blamed for it, it keeps her stuck and probably not wanting to risk asking for help again because that was the response that she may have received. And I would say especially for moms, "Don't have time and money to do it," and it feels selfish to take that time away from my children to get my healing. So better I just keep my head down, keep working to get through this, try to compartmentalize it away. But do not let those logistics hold you back because we have scholarships available. Let us know if that's part of the problem. And the time piece, we might think that old adage, "Time heals all wounds." It's not true. Time alone does not heal this kind of wound. In fact, it festers if it's just shoved in a drawer and you try not to look at it and you just try to keep your head above water. The righteous anger turns into bitterness, and that bitterness becomes an infestation in life, and we really want to save you from that. But even what I've just said might anger you because, as Jackie pointed out, it's not your fault. But you're the one carrying the pain and you're the one that has the power to do something about that pain. That's what we teach at Restore: how you can access healing and freedom no matter what the perpetrator is doing. The last one is fear. When I've worked the Restore weekend and I get to talk to women when they first come in, it's so common that they are very silent, scared, crying already, and feel like no one will understand me, my story is worse than anybody else's, and if it's already my fault and I'm the one to blame, how am I even going to speak up? But our Restore intensive is just overflowing with love and compassion, grace, and understanding. I see women walk out of the Restore intensive often arm in arm, literally, with the sisters that they bond with at that weekend and so well-equipped by our leaders, many of whom have gone through very similar pain to what you have been through.
Brian Perez: We talk here at New Life about not having to do life alone, but part of it, whether it's Restore or Every Man's Battle, there is that feeling of, "No, I do want to do this alone because I don't want other people to know that I've been through this." So, like with Restore, even though you're walking into a room with other women who have been through this, there's still that feeling of, "No, I'll just put this in a drawer somewhere, I'll figure it out. It's been five years, ten years, I've been okay, maybe if I just give it another five to ten years, it'll be okay," instead of going to Restore.
Jackie Mack Harris: Shame. I think there's shame associated, whether it is someone has said it to you or not, or you just have grown up in this world and you realize, "Oh, well, these things shouldn't happen, and if they do happen, then somehow I'm not wife enough." And so now there's this shame, "This thing happened because I wasn't a good enough wife. Now I'm going to not be a good enough wife by not being quiet." I don't want to be contentious, I don't want to be difficult. And so a lot of people just try to suck it up and push it down and just go to God. "God is my everything, God never leaves me and forsakes me." We use those quick verses to be able to talk ourselves into ignoring our own pain and martyring ourselves, trying our best to just be okay. Oftentimes when people say they're fine, that word could be defined in so many different ways. Fine is just putting a cork in the problem so that you can move on rather than actually dealing with, "Yeah, I'm fine, but I'm also hurt. I'm fine, but I'm sad. I'm fine, but now I feel anxious and I can't trust. Yeah, I'm fine, I'm going to get up in the morning, I'm going to brush my teeth, I'm going to get dressed, I'm going to go do the things I need to do." And then when it gets quiet is when I have those alone moments, and that I don't want to share with anybody else because of shame.
Brian Perez: Do you think it's harder for a woman who maybe is still married to the man who betrayed her to go to Restore? Because she's thinking, "Well, if I go to Restore, I'm letting him know that what he did to me hurt me. Yes, I already forgave him," and but they're thinking, "No, let's just keep things peaceful because he's going to know that something's up."
Jackie Mack Harris: Well, I can imagine there are some women who won't go or don't want him to know they're going because he doesn't want them to go. Because it then brings up all of his shame again. "We're fine, we're good, you don't need to go talk to anybody. All that's going to do is dredge that stuff back up and then you're going to be mad at me again. It's over, it happened in the past, you forgave me," the number of times I hear "It happened in the past, you said you forgave me, why do you keep bringing it up?" Well, it keeps coming up because it happened. It is now a part of the story, and what a lot of people don't realize is just because someone says they forgive you doesn't mean it erases the experience of what happened, and you will have different things happen and occur in your life that will dredge those feelings back up. Often the perpetrator of the infidelity, they want to be able to have their guilt assuaged by "I've asked for forgiveness, you've said you've forgiven me, we're going to work through this, well, now that should be the last time I have to hear about it." But the person who was betrayed, the phone rings and they feel it. They try to go to sleep and an image pops in their mind and they feel it. Someone says something on TV and they feel it. They're listening to the radio and they feel it. It is constant for them, and they don't get to get out of it just because they said that they would forgive someone. And so it's now become a part of the story and Restore can help you integrate that experience into your story in a new way. Oftentimes it's integrated into "Now everything's broken, the whole marriage is a lie." We begin to tell ourselves these stories, and for some marriages, it is maybe irrevocably broken, that's it, you're not getting it back, but that's not always the case. It's often that marriages can survive and be stronger because of the healing work that gets done on the other side of betrayal. So, I just really recommend that they come and give it a try because it's shame I think that prevents them from getting the healing that they really need and deserve.
Brian Perez: So, ladies, come to Restore. It's the weekend of November 13th in Washington, D.C. You can get all the details on our website, newlife.com, or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. There's still time for you to register for the early bird discount that we offer. And like Alice said, if finances are an issue, let us know. We'll talk to you about our need-based scholarships that we have available here at New Life Ministries. We'll be back with more here on New Life LIVE. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life LIVE. So, we have several ways that you can ask your question. Our favorite way is when you call into the studio when we're here taking calls, and you can find out more about that on our website, newlife.com/radio. That shows us our recording schedule, but it also gives you a phone number where you can leave a voicemail and there's also a form that you can fill out so that you can send us an email with your question. And that is what Debbie did. Debbie asks, "How do I love and support my 22-year-old daughter without giving support to the lesbian lifestyle?" Debbie says, "My daughter is in a lesbian relationship. She's never exhibited this tendency before. She's not had any boyfriends, but she's wanted one desperately. We're Christian. She's been raised in the church. She thinks God is okay with her lifestyle. So, how do I love and support her?" What do you guys say to Debbie?
Jackie Mack Harris: I say love her and support her as the person. That's hard, though, I think for Debbie to be able to do because Debbie's not able to separate out her daughter's relational activity with the person that she is. But what I wonder is what has your relationship with her been like? What does love look like? What does it mean to love someone? And I would go to scripture and I would look at what scripture says about love and see if those are thoughts, tenets, behaviors, ways of being that you find in your relationship with your daughter. And then this is something that I ask people regularly: how is that other person's sex life affecting you? I think as Christians, we spend an enormous amount of time concerned about other people's sexual health and sex life, and I just don't see God being nearly as concerned about everybody else's sex life as we are. I think we as Christians have made that a focal point and we are doing a disservice. We are not introducing people to Jesus, we are introducing people to rules and propriety. Jesus came to set us free. Either we are free in Christ or we are not. And if I help someone know Jesus—I've introduced them to Jesus, I've walked through a mountain road with them, they've accepted Christ and they know Jesus—the rest is not my business. I trust the Holy Spirit to do what He's going to do. And if they end up in a homosexual relationship, drug addicted, in a violent, abusive relationship, anything, that is between them and God at that point and all God has called me to do is love God with all my heart, soul, and mind and to love others as I love myself. And so I think as Christians, we have to check ourselves. We are the ones falling out of line. I don't have anything to do with your marriage, whether you are in a same-sex marriage or in a gendered marriage. I have nothing to do with that. What God has called me to do is to help you know Jesus. And if I've done that, then I know that I've done my work and I feel confident about that and I trust the Holy Spirit to handle anything that God's not pleased with.
Alice Benton: Debbie, your question must have a lot of fear and pain to it, and I know I would feel similarly if I were in your shoes, and we're getting this question more and more frequently from other parents that wonder why did my good Christian upbringing not seem to stick in this area of my child's life, especially when your daughter sounds like she expressed a desire for a boyfriend for a long time. What a shock that she then introduces you to her girlfriend. I think you will not like some of the things that I have to say because getting to know her partner is a way to love her and to love the partner, but I think that might not feel right to you to do. But I think you can be a Christian influence in both of their lives more by your actions than by your words of opposition. There could be a tendency towards judgmentalism out of your fear, and I would have that same tendency in your shoes. And also, you might possibly be wondering, "Did I fail my daughter? What did I do wrong that this is a choice that she has made?" So, I want you to be really careful about judgmentalism coming out. I also think we are called to warn other believers when we see that there is sin behavior or warn those who are stumbling towards the edge. And so I think it's a parental obligation to say once with a whole lot of love and kindness and humility, "I am an imperfect parent and I also need to point something out because I love you so much. I am confused that you're both a Christian and you're choosing a homosexual relationship. What's your understanding of what the Bible has to say about that? I really want to understand your perspective as a Christian." Be more of a listener, Debbie, than a speaker. But once it's important to conclude with, "I disagree with you. I think this part of your relationship is out of alignment with God's will, and I need to point that out because I love you and I don't want you to have unnecessary suffering in your life. And all the times I've been out of alignment with God's will, like my lying, like my extra-marital emotional affair that I had, like my excessive alcohol use, I was out of alignment with His will and it brought suffering on me, too. So, I'm going to keep loving you, I'm going to keep praying for you, and I thank you that you heard this conversation from me." That's what I would have you share with your daughter. There's a great book called "Embodied" by Preston Sprinkle, and he's a clinician who has specialized in this very thing: what do we do with both Christianity and same-sex desire and how do we love well? And we do it a lot more with behavior than with words.
Brian Perez: Isn't loving and supporting the partner—I mean, Debbie was asking about her daughter. You both gave great advice, but when we bring the partner into it, doesn't it seem like we're condoning the behavior? I mean, we've got the holidays coming up. People are probably going to start calling soon. Do I invite them to Thanksgiving dinner? Do I invite them to our Christmas celebration?
Jackie Mack Harris: Well, I think like Alice said, this is an opportunity for your witness. And it honestly doesn't matter if you agree with the lifestyle or not. You've said you don't agree. So, in that, you have said, "This isn't something I think is okay. I love you, but I'm concerned for you, I'm concerned for how this will impact your life." That is your "I don't agree." But we are called to love others. We're called to love our enemies, we're called to love our neighbor, we're called to love ourselves, we're called to love God. We are not called to not love anybody. Period. And we are not doing a great job of that as Christians. So, I agree that is one way to show your daughter love and acceptance of her as a person. You don't have to accept someone's experience or their life in order to validate them as a person. And so her friend comes over. You have boundaries in place regardless of whether your child is dating someone you approve of or not. And so hopefully they respect your home and they respect your rules. But you get to set boundaries, and you're right, the holidays are coming up and this definitely is going to be a topic at many tables because some families are estranged because it is preferable to not have the other person around than to have that discomfort of, "Well, we disagree with this lifestyle." But I agree with Alice, I think it can be a way that your Christian witness can go forward. We have people in our lives who don't believe how we believe and whose actions and behaviors are not the same as our own, but they know us and love us and we know them and love them.
Alice Benton: If I had no sinners at my table, I wouldn't be allowed there either. Right? And Jesus gave a pretty neat example of going to the parties that were full of sinners because the sinners are the ones that need Him. I'm the one that needs Him.
Brian Perez: Debbie, thanks for submitting your question at newlife.com/radio. We'll talk to you next time. Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.